The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society - Fighting Blood Cancers
23 Replies Last post: Nov 23, 2009 2:18 AM by ChzDad   1 2 Previous Next
Tonya   224 posts since
Jun 17, 2009
Currently Being Moderated

Nov 12, 2009 7:42 PM

Protocol Errors

I just wanted to let you guys know, that even some of our road maps may have errors on them.  We are on AALL0232, and today we were at clinic for an LP on day 29 of maintenance.  I questioned our np as to why he was supposed to also receive his PO MTX on the same day that he receives IT MTX (as it says on our road map--but seemed a little much to me).  Sure enough, she called and verified that that is in fact an error for RER kids, and that they should not receive PO MTX on the same day as an LP.

 

So frustrating and makes me feel insecure when these things pop up, like I constantly have to be on top of every little thing...

Shakinquaker   314 posts since
Apr 5, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
1. Nov 12, 2009 7:52 PM in response to: Tonya
Re: Protocol Errors

Since we've been on this journey, I have decided that there is very little about medicine that is science.  It really seems like an art.  It drives me crazy.  Things should be exactly the same from place to place.  No luck though.

Fontenrose   187 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
2. Nov 13, 2009 1:01 AM in response to: Tonya
Re: Protocol Errors

My protocol sheet has the hand-written note under comments column: "Omit day 29 MTX cycles 1-4 RER only".

 

My son also just had an LP re-scheduled for the week following when it should have been, so the next dose of Mtx meant for that week also had to be re-scheduled.  I was glad I asked about that, as no one thought to remind me.

 

OT Note: My doctor also made a very clear point of telling us that the prednisone is not started until the evening after the LP, so the ANC is not affected.

hero4   180 posts since
Apr 4, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
3. Nov 13, 2009 7:17 AM in response to: Tonya
Re: Protocol Errors

Oh yeah - that's a BIG no-no!  Everytime we'd go for our son's check-up the day before the LP - his pharmacist would always tell me "remember - no oral MTX tonight" as he got his oral MTX on Tuesday nights, LP's on Wednesdays.  At first, it was a hard habit to get used to, but then I got used to it.  My son always got neutropenic in the week to two weeks following his LP and then it would go back to normal. I can't imagine what his counts would be like if he got the oral dose as well.  Our Onc explained it as even though they presume not much crosses the blood/brain barrier, they do know that some does and that is why they specificially note that having the oral dose would be too risky.

spookyproud   149 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
4. Nov 13, 2009 8:06 AM in response to: Tonya
Re: Protocol Errors

Kaeden was on ALL00331.  We were used to having his LP on the same day his Oral Methotrexate was due so it had never been a problem about omitting the oral on LP days.  At some point the clinic changed his LP to the following day and I gave Kaeden his Oral Methotrexate the night before without even thinking about it.  I informed the doctors and they went ahead with his scheduled IT meds.  They said that some children do get both in one day and not to worry about it~he would be fine.  Kaeden was fine. What we did do from that point on is change his oral Methotrexate to the day the that his IT meds were due so I didnt double up again.  Cheryl

aboutthewin   51 posts since
May 20, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
5. Nov 13, 2009 4:59 PM in response to: Tonya
Re: Protocol Errors

Tonya, how distressing that YOU had to be the one to catch this! Like we all don't have enough to worry about and keep track of as it is....

 

Anyway, thanks so much for letting us know about it so we could check it out.... Andrew is on protocol AALL07P4, which I think is just like Justin's but Andrew is on study for a different PEG drug. His roadmap also shows IT MTX and PO MTX on Day 29, but with a footnote that says "RER patients only: receive IT MTX instead of PO MTX on Day 29 for first four cycles only" (not hand-written).

 

Andrew is on delay from DI... hopefully he'll start Day 1 of Maintenance next Friday!

 

Kristen

www.aboutthewin.wordpress.com

momof7   90 posts since
Apr 5, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
7. Nov 13, 2009 8:01 PM in response to: Tonya
Re: Protocol Errors

Most protocols are on 28 day cycles.  Technically there is no day 29/:  it becomes day 1 of the next cycle .  For most of the ALL protocols (I am assuming here based on what I have read and heard from other parents), oral methotrexate is omitted during the WEEK of ITMTX.  From speaking with other parents, I understand that there is much confusion over this to the point of some parents being misadvised or the issue is omitted by mistake during LTM.  I know of parents who became aware of this half way during LTM.   So, it is extremely important for the parents to ask for the most recent protocol, no matter what the nurses or docs think of your request.  I have always taken the approach that my child is not the only patient under treatement, mistakes are made, we are all only human and as a result , it is recommendable that the more informed and aware parents can be, the better.  I have even caught several mistakes even at the pharmacies after double checking doses and BSA's.

momof7   90 posts since
Apr 5, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
9. Nov 13, 2009 9:49 PM in response to: Tonya
Re: Protocol Errors

All the dosages during LTM, just like the initial treatment are determined by the BSA and tolerance levels.  I found that going to the satellite , one sort of may get lost in the paperwork of the main hospital,temporarily, so it is very advisable to have a copy of the protocol as well as staying on top of the dosage increases due to weight/growth.  On our protocol,  day 84 is written 84/1,;  , but day 1 for the next cycle of LTM.  My son has 22 weeks left, and let me tell you, I am definately counting them down minute by minute so to speak.

 

Keep upto date  on your protocol.

Elke'smom   208 posts since
Apr 4, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
10. Nov 13, 2009 10:13 PM in response to: Tonya
Re: Protocol Errors

Tonya,

 

I think we are on a different study -- we are on AALL0331 -- so this may not be the same in yours, but in ours, the first time the ANC drops below 500, the 6 MP and oral mtx are held until recovery to 750.  Then, 6 MP and mtx are resumed at 100%.  The next time the ANC drops below 500, the 6 MP and mtx are resumed at 50% after the ANC recovers to 750.  We had several times where her ANC was below 750 but above 500 and the chemo was continued at full dosage.

 

Ann

doublewishmom   119 posts since
Aug 11, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
11. Nov 13, 2009 10:22 PM in response to: Elke'smom
Re: Protocol Errors

This is how it works for us, too. We also have had to go from 50% to 

75% and then to 100%. They wait like 2 weeks in between stepping up 

the dose.

CaitlinsMom   11 posts since
Apr 6, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
13. Nov 20, 2009 12:43 AM in response to: Tonya
Re: Protocol Errors

I always learn something new here.  I have NEVER heard of not giving the oral MTX the same day as the IT MTX.  Not even a whisper.  We always give the oral MTX on Wednesday nights and Caitlin has gotten BMs/LPs on Thursday mornings and this is news to me.  Interesting...... will have to ask about it at the next visit.

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...