I am a mom just seeking advice from those knowledgeable in blood counts and what they mean.
My 5 year old son has been ill for about 1 month with recurrent fevers. A week and a half ago his pediatrician ran a cbc and it was mostly normal. His total WBC was normal, but the absolute lymphocyte count was low (1000, and normal for his age was 3000-9,500) and absolute monocytes were high (I can't remember the number, but the percentage was 17%.) His hemoglobin was the lowest of the normal range (11.5) and platelets were normal, but on the lower end (just under 200k.)
His ped. put him on antibiotics for 10 days, and he just finished them, but he is still running an almost constant low-grade fever (99-100.) He keeps missing school because of this. I had him back in the dr. on friday, and he said that the low lymphocyte count can be causing his body to run a fever, but he couldn't really explain why.
Does anyone know what low lymphocytes mean? Should I be alarmed or is this just no big deal at all?
I am familiar with these boards because I was here almost exactly one year ago researching information regarding this same child. (He had a lymph-node in his neck that persisted for several months and when finally removed it was over 2 inches in diameter, but thankfully came back as benign.)
Anyways, I feel silly asking but I know that many of you are basically experts when it comes to blood counts and I am pretty clueless.
Thanks.
There are numerous reasons for why lymphocytopenia can occur. Most often it is a result of an infection, often viral infections. I’ve also gotten lymphocytopenia when I was on a cortisol (prednisone).
Since your son has not responded to antibiotics, this might suggest that he has a viral infection. Have they tried an antiviral medication? Have they tested to see what type, T- or B-lymphocyte, is low?
Joe
No anti-viral meds. He goes in for a re-check this coming friday. He was on prednisone as a baby and toddler (preemie with chronic lung disease) but not since the age of two and currently takes no medications (other than the antibiotics for the past 10 days.)
B-cells and T-cells? I have no idea. They ran a cbc with automated diff. and just told me the absolute lymphocyte count was pretty low for his age, and the monocyte count a bit high.
With the low lymphocytes and high monocytes its sounds like he is fighting off an infection or some kind. I'm glad to hear they will be repeating the cbc, I'd keep an eye on the hgb to see if it drops further and the platelets to see if they remain in normal range. If the hgb and the plts drop I'd probably want the Dr to repeat the cbc again in a week.The constant low grade temps are something to keep an eye on as well. Most likely its just some bug he's fighting, I know there is a lot going around the school right now here in Wisconsin. Until his labs are back in the normal range I'd want to continue cbc's every week. I'm sorry your child has had such a rough start in life, his little body just sounds more susceptible to infections, please keep us updated.
Thanks for the reply, rgaild. I'm sure that he probably is just taking longer to fight something off. It always seems like it's something with him! Last year when we were dealing with the huge lymph node, the biopsy had to be put on hold because at his pre-surgery physical his PTT was extremely prolonged. They thought it was an error and repeated it, only for it to come back even worse, so the surgery was cancelled and we were sent to a hematologist at Children's. After WEEKS of going back and forth and doing tons of bloodwork they never figured out why, and the hematologist gave the okay for the surgery to remove the node. (By this point it was over two inches big in the side of his neck...and causing ear pain by pressing on blood vessels.) He ended up developing a baseball sized hematoma at the surgery site that took a couple of weeks to go away. Thankfully though, the results were benign and we moved on. Then a couple of months later in preschool during a hearing test it was discovered that he had moderate hearing loss and had tons of thick fluid build up in both middle ears, so about 4 months ago he had tubes placed in his ears.
This whole fever thing now has just been a little strange. I'm almost wondering if it has something to do with the vaccines he had just before kindergarten started. Mid/late-august he had his kindergarten physical and everything looked great and he recieved a couple of vaccines. The next morning he woke up with his whole shoulder extremely swollen and hot to the touch. It was white and rock hard with a huge red ring around the whole shoulder and upper arm. I called the dr's office and they said it was just a reaction and to keep an eye on it and ice it. In two days, it was gone. About a week after his vaccines though, he woke up during the night screaming that his legs hurt. My younger son has had growing pain issues so I assumed that's what was going on with him and just comforted him back to sleep. In the morning though, he woke up in terrible pain and literally could not walk. I had to carry him to the bathroom. I gave him motrin and had him soak in a warm bath and it seemed to get much better. That day I sent him to afternoon kindergarten (it was only like the 4th day of school!) and he was still limping a bit but seemed fine. I figured he'd pulled a muscle playing at the park the day before or something. When i picked him up from school he was obviously not feeling well. Within an hour of getting home he started running a fever and again couldn't walk. His legs hurt and one arm hurt. I run an in-home daycare, and he was in so much pain that I almost called someone to come and stay with all of the kids for me to take him to the E.R., but instead gave him more motrin and it finally started to help. My sister mentioned that she thought some vaccines could cause these sort of symptoms.
The next morning, again, he woke up screaming in pain and unable to walk and running a fever. I gave him tylenol and then took him to the dr at the walk-in office. When we were finally seen, he no longer had a fever, but was still having a tough time walking. The dr. said he thought it was just a case where he had over-used his muscles playing on the playground or running or something, and to give motrin/tylenol and ice and heating pads. The horrible leg pains continued for the whole week off and on with the fever. I brought him back into the dr and said I really didn't think strained muscles would also be causing fevers, and mentioned the vaccine reaction. He said no, that couldn't be it because only the MMR vaccine rarely causes something like that, but he had not recieved the mmr since he was a toddler. He said that it must be a virus that was causing the fever and pain in his joints. He prescribed prescription strength motrin for him, and just said to keep an eye on him. Long story short the fevers and pain have come and gone since then and he has repeatedly missed school. The day that his dr finally drew blood I brought him in with a fever and refusing to bear weight on one of his legs. That's when he ordered the CBC along with leg xrays (came back normal) and urine (also normal.) He was thinking arthiritis, but his ESR came back pretty normal (I think it was 16?) and the cbc pretty normal too so he prescribed antibiotics to hopefully take care of whatever is going on.
Here we are, he's finished the 10 days of antibiotics and still having the fever issues, but the pain in his legs has seemed to get better, although he is still walking around a little stiff-legged and won't run. Last night he woke up crying about one of his arms hurting and his tummy hurting and was running a fever. Now he's still asleep, and I'm trying to decide if I take him back into the dr? Or just wait it out until friday when we go in to repeat the cbc? I feel like he's missing so much school, and we're only 1 month into it! I had his parent teacher conference last friday, and his teacher just said that the days he has been in school, he's been moody and obviously not feeling well.
Anyways... that's what's been going on for the past month. Honestly, I was worried that his blood test was going to come back showing something bad, so I was extremely relieved when it was pretty much normal but I wanted to understand what the low lymphocytes meant. I guess that if he really continues to feel so poorly, I will ask about the anti-viral meds.
I want to comment on your situation but I want you to know I am probably not the right person to get an open opinion from because we have dealt with childhood cancer in our family, so when ever I hear parents list certain symptoms I automatically think the worse since sadly thast all I know, so having said that please just take it as information, I am not saying this is what your son has, I contemplated on commenting because I don't want to cause you more worry, on the other hand if I don't comment and there is something I can help you with and I don't I'd feel terrible too, so with that said when I read your childs symptoms, the leg pain, belly pain and temps that bothered me. I am glad though to hear that the first cbc that was done showed pretty much normal labs, thats good news. My child had leukemia, the main symptoms are leg pains so bad they don't want to walk,(pain can come and go) belly pain from enlarged liver and or spleen and low grade temps that seem to come and go for no reason, night sweats. My child had a loss appitight , fatigue, paleness (from low hgb) my child never had the common symptom of bruising or nose bleeds but those are two main symptoms also. I would wait for your appt on friday, unless of coarse you feel your child is getting much worse, but it would be best to wait atleast a whole week between cbc's, mostly because doing it too soon might just show the same labs his body needs time to recover from the possible illness he is fighting. I'd look at the wbc with leukemia that will be high (although I know in some cases the wbc can be really low also, its more common for it to be high)get a copy of the labs, normal ranges should be listed, some kids(with leukemia) will have crazy high wbc up in the 100,000 my child's was around 21,000. Also the hgb (hemoglobin) you mention it was on the low end of normal with leukemia you would see this drop from lack of redblood cells, which you may or may not notice paleness in your child, also plts (platelets) the plts are usually this first count to drop with leukemia, I think you mention your sons was just under 200 (which is actually 200,000) so his plts are very good right now, I believe under 140 is considered low. A.L.L (acute lymphoblastic leukemia) comes on very acutely, meaning that if your son had these symptoms for 4 or more months it most likely is not leukemia but a virus of some sort. My child continually got sick over 1 1/2 months, he would get strep go on antibiotics for 10 days just finish the meds and then get sick again, ear infection then another 10 day of meds then sick again this went on for 1 1/2 months finally he was looking so pale and his belly was so tender the dr drew labs and at that point his counts were pretty low, he was dx the next day (a bmb and bma- bone marrow biopsy and bone marrow aspirate are needed to confirm a dx of leukemia) So now I feel like I have said way too much, please know there are other illnesses and viruses that can cause low hgb and low plts so its a process of elimination. ight
please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Thankyou so much for the advice, and for sharing your situation. Don't worry about scaring me. As I said, I was on these boards a year ago when my son was going through the biopsy. I was just lurking for information then, and actually met a mom on here who also had a son with an enlarged lymph node that would not go away. I even emailed her privately to reassure her that it was probably nothing (her son's lymph node was half the size of my little guy's, and had not been there for as long.) She is actually the one who encouraged me to go through with getting his biopsied when her child's lymph node turned out to be malignant (with no other symptoms.) I felt so thankful when I found of that my child's was benign, but guilty at the same time.
During the time that we were waiting for his results to come back, I was "bad" and read through stories of kids who had been diagnosed, and those have stuck with me. When my younger son had some issues with growing pains around the same time that he had a streak of bad respiratory illnesses last winter, I was so paranoid that it was something serious, when in fact it wasn't at all.
So, when this started a few weeks ago with the horrible leg pain and fevers, (he hasn't been sick for 4 months, these symptoms first started on August 25th, so about 5 weeks ago) I felt like God was playing a joke on me or something. My mind did think the worst since I was already familiar with the symptoms of leukemia from my research last year, but I also know that the odds are absolutely in favor of this NOT being something that serious at all.
He is home from school again today with a fever, but he's not complaining about anything else. He has missed at least 2 days of school every week of kindergarten (these symptoms started the second week of school.) The leg pains were the most intense the first week that this all started and have come and gone for the past 3-4 weeks now. Sometimes very painful where he is crying out and refusing to walk, and other times where he is just walking very stiff-legged like a little old man, and I see him wince a bit. Other times though he's been fine and playing normally, which makes me think that there can't be anything seriously wrong. He has no unusual bruising at all, or nosebleeds, or anything like that. His tummy isn't swollen or anything, and his stomach ache could easily be caused by all of the tylenol and motrin I've been giving him for a whole month now. His appetite is still fine. Really it's just this almost-constant low-grade fever that stays around 99-100 and occasionally 101-102 with these strange pains, and he has also been extremely irritable and cranky and moody.
I am going to wait and see what happens with his blood test on friday. It just seems like 5 weeks is a long time to have a fever.
Do you have a children's hospital nearby? I would go to the emergency room and explain that your pediatrician has not found anything and you want to know what is going on. Five weeks is way too long to have a child with fevers and leg pain that bad. You need to demand that someone figure out what is going on. My daughter, too, has Leukemia and her only symptom was back and leg pain initially. It would come and go over several weeks and then was extremely severe one night. The ER doc at a non-children's hospital told us she was constipated. Then, she got a fever the next day and we went to the pediatrician who sent us to the Children's Hospital where they could see blast cells in her blood work. I'm not saying he has leukemia; there are probably lots of things that could cause his symptoms. But, you know something is wrong with him. Trust your Mommy radar and fight for him. Sadly, that is sometimes what it takes, especially with vague symptoms. If it is leukemia, you need to know quickly. If it's not, you still need to know what is going on and that sweet little boy needs to feel better.
If you don't have a children's hospital nearby, I would find a new pediatrician tomorrow. Yours is not trying hard enough to figure out what is going on.
My Mommy Radar is almost always right, and I would be willing to bet yours is, too. A good doctor will respect your intuition.
Good Luck,
Beth
Hi Tanner's Mom. Thanks for your advice. I hope that your daughter is doing okay!
How long did your daughter have the leg pains for? They would really come and go? I talked to my little guy's docter over the phone yesterday, and he reassured me that the blood work has ruled out anything "really bad" and that if it was anything serious, the pains would be constant. My son's leg pains are not constant. The first week that they started it was almost constant, but have gone up and down since then. Yesterday he was actually feeling well enough to run around the backyard and play, so maybe he is finally getting better. He still has a fever this morning, which is what I just find so strange. It's only 99.6 and lingers between 99 and 100. Low grade, but substantial for him as he has a lower than average base temperature. He goes back in tomorrow for the repeat bloodwork. I am sure that if anything serious is going on, it would show up in tomorrow's cbc (2 weeks since the first one.)
Tanner's leg and back pain started about two weeks prior to diagnosis and came and went over the next two weeks. Then, she woke up screaming one night and wouldn't stop. We went to the ER and she was more comfortable briefly due to the codeine they gave her, but she developed a fever the next morning and when I took her to the pediatrician at 9:30 her CBC was normal except for hemoglobin on the low side of normal. By 12:30 at the Vandy Childrens Hospital ER her CBC showed blast cells and all her levels were off. That's the thing about acute leukemia... those cells can be building and replicating in the marrow for weeks before they finally spill out into the blood stream and are detectable by CBC. Tanner's bone marrow at diagnosis was 95% leukemia cells, a very high infiltration, yet we had seen no fatigue, no bruising, no illnesses, nothing except the back and leg pain.
Again, I'm not saying your son has leukemia, or any other type of cancer for that matter, I am just suggesting that your pediatrician is not actively looking for a reason for his symptoms and that a children's hospital might have knowledge beyond that of your pediatricians and might be able to better diagnose his problem.
Good luck and I hope your son gets better soon.
Beth
Thinking of you guys....how did your sons Dr. apt go on Friday? Hope all is well.
Robin
At his follow up appt. the dr. found that he has an infection around one of the tubes in his ears ( he had thought he'd seen a blood clot in there before, but then it was fine at the next appt, now it looks infected.) He felt confident that we've found our source of the constant fevers, and prescribed a stronger antibiotic and said that he wanted to hold off on redoing the cbc until after we finish these meds, because it will mosty likely still just show that he's fighting an infection. I felt a little confused that he developed this ear infection right after fnishing a round of antibiotics, but will trust this dr's advice. (The fact that my son was crying and begging for no pokes helped, too.)
Like I said before, I've been known to be overly concerned and paranoid when it comes to him and I am trying not to be. He does look quite pale to me right now, but I know that makes sense with him being under the weather. This morning he woke up with an awful headache and still running a fever, and now has a rash covering his abdomen (definitely not petechiae, it's raised and pimply.) He also has developed a pretty yucky cough, so most likely it's just some viral thing on top of this ear infection. He had not complained of joint/bone pain for days, but now today is back to complaining about his legs and now one of his wrists really bothering him. We are on fall-break here from school, so at least he isn't missing any more school at the moment, and has a few more days to hopefully get over this and feel better. We went to an amusement park on monday with my in-laws (a trip that has been put off for weeks because he's been sick) and he was unhappy and exhausted and cranky and feeling horrible and wanted to be carried most of the time.
I am still going to ask for the cbc to be repeated after these antibiotics are done, just to be sure. It has now been 6 weeks since all of this started, and I feel bad that he has felt crummy for this long.
I am worried about your son, I really wish your dr would have just run the cbc, your right your son could be pale from being sick but her could also be pale from a low hgb, I tend to overreact too, but with all his symptoms I'd be consernd. As your dr said his labs will show an elevated wbc from fighting an illness but it could also be extremly high would would indicate other things, the fact that he got sick right after that antibiotics has to mean there is an underlining cause. I'm sorry if I seem pushy, but something here doesn't sit well. If I were you I would take him back in tomorrow and get a cbc done, you need to know if his hgb is critically low, of his platelets are critically low, I'm not sure he can wait the 10 days to finish the antibiotics for the cbc, please take him in tomorrow.
We are actually going back into the dr. this morning. He is still feeling crummy, and this weird rash has now moved from just being on his chest to covering basically his whole body. It sort of looks like chicken pox (although he was vaccinated.) I am going to ask for the repeat cbc today. I feel so bad, because he is supposed to go to his cousin's Toy Story birthday party this morning, but I can't send him with a fever and freaky rash. I'm really wondering if there's not something up with his immune system. It seems like he just so susceptible to everything.
Thanks for the concern. I will let you know what the dr. says. I'm sure it's still not going to be anything serious, but I do want this figured out. Obviously if he still has these symptoms on monday, he will have to miss more kindergarten.
I'm sorry your son isn't feeling well again today. I know I don't know you but I've been thinking about your little guy alot, I'm so glad that you will be having a cbc done today, like you said it probably is nothing serious but its a simple test to rule some things out. I don't know if you do already but get copies of all his labs in case you decided at some point to see another dr it will help to have these on hand. I'll be checking back for your update, thanks for doing that, oh my son had something last year that looked like chicken pox, it was really strange, he too was vaccinanted, his rash followed his sternum down and aound his rib cage on both sides.I though maybe shingles but shingles is usualy only on one side. Also I don't know if he uses a loofa (sp) or other sponges in the bath but the hold in lots of bacteria, I learned that the hard way, my son also got these pimple like spots on him on random places, turns out it was from the sponge that he had been using for about a month, threw it out and have stuck to washclothes and never had the problem again. Hope all goes well today.