The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society - Fighting Blood Cancers
34 Replies Last post: May 10, 2009 1:12 AM by Prayers for my Mom, by Nicole   1 2 3 Previous Next
ferret   163 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
Currently Being Moderated

Apr 16, 2009 10:59 PM

Doctors - Patient vs. Wife

Has anyone had trouble with their spouse's doctor deciding that keeping the other half updated on changes in treatment, or results of scans, is just not needed, when the patient has cognitive issues?

As many of you know, my husband has had significant cognitive function issues.  His mind has improved, but is far from being better.  Recently he was discharged to a rehab facility and then brought back after they found that the tumor in his brain was slightly larger instead of smaller.  I am continuing to work and so far I have been his health care proxy due to cognitive issues.  After giving me the bad news, the doctor decided that since my husband was doing somewhat better cognitively, he didn't need to let me know what changes they had made in his treatment and what this meant long-term.

I had asked my husband and he got some of the facts right, but some of them wrong.  He aslo had no idea of what the ramifications were.  In his mind it was all good, and the reason he was brought back was just a minor glich.  When the doctor finally called me 3 days later, he asked me to tell him what Randy had told me and then clarified things.  He feels that since he got a lot of it right, then I'm no longer needed to help with medical decisions.

To me that felt like a slap in the face.  First of all, I disagree with the doctor.  I talked to patient advocacy about it and she said she probably couldn't do anything about it, unless my husband was declared incompetant to make decisions.  Well I don't think he's incompetant, but he far from being able to relay messages and explain to me what's going on.  I don't know what to do now.  The doctor said he would try to meet with me at Randy's room once a week, but he tried to set that up before and it didn't work.  I tried to explain to him that I would be OK if someone else relayed the message to me (N.P. or Nurse, or whomever), because I understand that he is busy, but I guess there are privacy issues with that.

The nurses also can't relay medical results to me for the same reason.  Yet he makes sure to mention when he talks to me, that if the cancer grows in spite of treatment, then there is no more they can do for him.

Frustrated and scared.

MaureenGlvn   26 posts since
Apr 4, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
1. Apr 17, 2009 1:47 AM in response to: ferret
Re: Doctors - Patient vs. Wife

As my husband's caregiver, I find this totally unacceptable.  Or maybe I've just been lucky in the cooperation that I've received with regards to his care. 

Ray has cognitive issues also and while he can be totally coherent one day, he can be off a little or off a lot, the next day.  I'm lucky though that I am able to be at all of his appointments and was able to be at the hospital each day to see his physicians when he was inpatient.  I'm extremely lucky in that I have a job with a lot of flexibility and work from home to boot so I am the first point of contact with all his caregivers and home health personnel.  In fact, his oncologist and neurologists have even deferred to me when deciding issues such as his returning to driving (not happening, at least no time soon) and other issues.  We are still not 100% sure why Ray is having cognitive issues, but they are definitely there.  All of his scans while in the hospital in January came back negative, and his latest PET scan also showed 100% remission of his three lymphoma types, but they are waiting to finish his last two chemo cycles before pursuing new MRIs and EEGs to make sure they are due to his chemo and get clean scans. 

I am so sorry to hear that you are having so many difficulties and honestly, that whole HIPA bull is just that.  I am a medical transcriptionist and while I understand the need for patient privacy, it is not as if they are giving out information to his second cousin twice removed.  In fact, I've had bigger problems getting information and cooperation from credit reporting agencies than I have medical staff when it came to getting information on my husband. 

 

Is it possible that you can request copies of his office visit notes?  I know many physicians that I deal with do this when they dictate or generate electronic records by carbon copying the primary physician as well as the patient.  Everything that is gone over and discussed in the visit should be documented for the chart so this may be worth looking into.  

 

I really do feel for you as I kind of dread the day when Ray is able to take himself to the doctor, without me as a show of his regained independence, but I do hope that the day does finally come for his sake as he really resents his loss of freedom.  If I can think of anything else, I will get back to you.  Honestly, I would just keep pressing the issue with his physician.  There is really no reason whatsoever that they cannot share this information with you.  In fact, according to my SIL who is a social worker, the patient advocate is there not only to assist the patient, but his immediate family to ensure that all of the patient's care is handled appropriately.

Good luck in getting this straightened out satisfactorily. 

Prayers for my Mom, by Nicole   1,164 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
2. Apr 17, 2009 8:42 AM in response to: ferret
Re: Doctors - Patient vs. Wife

Ferret,

 

Oh this sounds crazy!  I couldn't imagine being shut out of my mothers treatments.  Can your husband sign a release in order for you to be able to get his medical information??  I live 12 hrs from my mother.  Therefore we set up a password so that I could get information.  I called the nurses stations several times a week and they never even requested the PW not even once. Sounds like you have some sticklers!  hugs, nicole

crankycook   235 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
4. Apr 17, 2009 9:53 AM in response to: ferret
Re: Doctors - Patient vs. Wife

Ferret --

 

I don't understand why the docs didn't have your husband sign a privacy release the very first day that he was seen.  That's the only basis that they can withhold information from you. Or doesn't your husband want you to have info (although I can't imagine why not)?  Find out immediately whether he signed a privacy release -- if not, talk to him and the doctor's office and have one signed immediately. If he signed a privacy release, then I personally would find their withholding of info unacceptable.

 

Also, I notice that privacy issues aside, your husband's doctors tell you things like "he has peripheral T-cell lymphoma" and then refuse to give you any additional information. This leaves you understandably anxious and confused. I realize what a stressful time this is for you and I hate to sound harsh, but they may find you difficult to communicate with and/or feel that you won't understand what they are saying (as you know, I eventually gave up trying to explain the categorization and subsets of NHL peripheral T-cell lymphoma to you).  Unless and until someone officially determines that your husband is no longer competent to make decisions, they are under no obligation to consult with you before beginning or changing a course of treatment. My husband has been with me at least 75% of the time I have seen a doctor, but they rely on me to convey pertinent info to him after the visits he cannot attend -- they don't call him up to tell him what transpired. However, if and when your husband signs a privacy release, they cannot withhold answers to questions you pose to them. Perhaps you could set up e-mail communication with them so that they can respond to you when they are not pressed for time.  My doctors prefer that to being called at times when they are very busy (unless it is urgent) and they always respond in less than 24 hours.

 

Again, your husband is very fortunate to have you trying so hard to look after his best interests -- I have encountered too many folks at the hospital who have to undertake this ordeal on their own.

 

Cranky

crankycook   235 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
6. Apr 17, 2009 1:10 PM in response to: ferret
Re: Doctors - Patient vs. Wife

Ferret --

 

As you say, if you just get your husband to sign a privacy waiver the "no e-mails" issue may just get resolved as also may the reluctance to give you additional info about hubby.  They are just following the rules -- and it is pointless to try to get them to violate them.  Just stick a pen in your husband's hand and have him sign the darn form !

 

As for "non-specific peripheral T-cell lymphoma" being a subset of "peripheral T-cell lymphoma"  I spent at least 3 e-mails trying to get you to understand this.  In fact, non-specific peripheral T-cell lymphoma makes up about 50% of peripheral T-cell lymphomas.

 

Your questioning the doctor about your husband's brain lymphoma is VERY pertinent and appropriate.  You obviously want to know if it means his lymphoma has metastisized to his brain and central nervous system or is it primary brain lymphoma, as well as other things.  I have no idea as to whether treatments or tests would differ, but I'm sure you want some answers. You probably wouldn't get much attention from the doctor during rounds even if you were there -- it's been my experience that the docs on their rounds kind of fly in and out of the room as quickly as possible (unless there is a specific change in condition to address) so that they can get to all the other patients they have to see and then start their office hours.  Your anxiety is not misplaced -- it's being magnified though by your inability to get info. But you're simply not going to get enough info if you don't have hubby sign that HIPA release!

 

Cranky

Prayers for my Mom, by Nicole   1,164 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
9. Apr 22, 2009 11:22 PM in response to: ferret
Re: Doctors - Patient vs. Wife

Oh, Im so sorry.. Of course you are not doing well, who would.. Hopefully he can get into remission, there is still Hope!  Is there any options of a 2nd opinion?? or is that out of the question?  Try not to focus on the percentage.. I know there are always percentages thrown out, and who is to say he won't be the one to make it.  I kept telling myself that while my mom was going thru treatment.  When they said 1 out of 3 don't make it the first 100 days after the SCT, I of course freaked, but she did.. Then they said there was a 50% chance mom wouldn't make it thru her surgery, and she did!  Stay determined, even though I know its tuff and I am not in your shoes! Thinking of you, nicole

crankycook   235 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
10. Apr 23, 2009 4:39 AM in response to: ferret
Re: Doctors - Patient vs. Wife

Ferret --

 

I am so very sorry to hear the bad news about your husband's prognosis.  You have really been through a tough time -- with a tougher time to come, I fear.  Just try to keep in mind that your husband may indeed be in the 30% that responds well to the chemo he is going to receive -- somebody has to be !  I personally have been told by my doctors twice in the past 17 months that I would be gone in a matter of weeks.  Both times I beat the odds and made it to transplant -- and I'm still here !  Try to be at the hospital to support your husband as much as possible through this and keep his spirits up -- it is something you can do both for yourself and him.  Even just sitting by his bed and holding his hand will help heal your hearts.

 

It might help you to feel a bit less helpless and despairing to find out from the doctor exactly what chemo regimen they are starting.  That way you can do some research on your own as to its efficacy and alternatives and ask good and pertinent questions of the doctor. For example : "Why are you trying Drug A instead of Drug B?"  I know you must feel like you're standing in the middle of a hurricane, but anything you can do to empower yourself may help both you and your husband through this ordeal.

 

Wishing you both all the very best,

 

Cranky

crankycook   235 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
11. Apr 23, 2009 6:28 AM in response to: ferret
Re: Doctors - Patient vs. Wife

Ferret --

 

There is a new drug called Pralatrexate that is showing success in getting refractory peripheral T-cell lymphoma into remission .  It is on the "fast track" for approval by the FDA, but there are also clinical trials being conducted with it. Ask husband's doc about it or whether he should be enrolled in a clinical trial.  If you google "peripheral t-cell lymphoma, treatment" you will find a lot of info.  This is the kind of stuff you can do to help your husband....

 

Cranky

crankycook   235 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
13. Apr 23, 2009 9:44 AM in response to: ferret
Re: Doctors - Patient vs. Wife

Ferret --

 

My heart is with you and your husband ...

 

Cranky

redmenace   17 posts since
Apr 22, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
14. Apr 30, 2009 3:06 PM in response to: ferret
Re: Doctors - Patient vs. Wife

If I were in your predicament, I would contact the LLS to find an advocate who might intervene on my behalf with his doctor.  If there's one lesson I've learned from dealing with the C monster for a year now, it's this:  Some doctors are jackasses.  Period.  No polite way to put it.  Yes, they graduated medical school which is no mean feat but as far as talking kindly and sensibly to a spouse or family member, forget about it.  They are truly incapable of that basic, primary function which really is a cryin' shame.  Because you need some kind, straight talk and you're not getting it.  But you can find it through the Lance Armstrong Foundation website too.  Call them, someone will intervene on your behalf.  Between LLS and LAF you'll find the right help.

Robin

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