The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society - Fighting Blood Cancers
10 Replies Last post: Nov 7, 2009 12:48 PM by Angela E. A.  
LilysGarden   66 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
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Nov 4, 2009 7:10 PM

another AVN question - Are there things to help?

Ok, I know AVN has been discussed on here a bunch.  Lily today was diagnosed with AVN definitely in the Left foot and spots of bone edema they felt were probable AVN or potentially would turn to AVN in "lots" of spots in both feet and ankles.   (they are still reviewing it with radiologists and orthos).   Anyway, our doctors are now doing the dance everyone has described of do we or do we not stop the DEX.   Lily is at the beginning of LTM and we have missed a ton of chemo to low counts.   Anyway, the oncs and I aren't overly enthused about stopping chemo however she is symptomatic - she has swelling and has had her ankles x-rayed who knows how many time thinking she had a fracture for hobbling around.  She also has pain in her shoulders, back, hips, knees and wrists (we haven't had those MRI'd but they suspect AVN is there too.  So due to the symptoms we aren't overly enthused about continuing it either.

 

So my question is does anyone know anything you can do that won't mess with the steroids that will help promote bone healing.    The oncologists said presently they were leaning towards continuing steroids for 2 months and then reevaluating.   I sort of lean towards that however I was curious if there was anythign I could do - vitamins, therapy, ??????? to promote bone healing.   I thought it may help at least keep things from getting worse so we don't have to stop steroids.   I thought of milk but that messes with the stupid chemo.

nana   116 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
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1. Nov 6, 2009 7:24 AM in response to: LilysGarden
Re: another AVN question - Are there things to help?

We had our clinic appt yesterday and we are still playing is it AVN or not.  I don't really have any alternate advice but I wanted to tell you what our Onc said.  Jakob was dx with AVN(his ankle) only by x-ray, so that leads to the argument about if it is AVN or not.  He had a bone density test and they only found one "hot spot" in his ankle and the rest of the bones look good.  We are waiting for a MRI next week.  Our Onc last week wasn't sure about stopping steroids, Jakob just started LTM, this week he told me if I wanted to continue them it would be a fight.  He said since Jakob is very high risk, he has received very high doses of steroids throughout treatment and the ones he would miss now won't change his prognosis.  He said he is comfortable with the fact that if Jakob relapses it will have nothing to do with having or not having steroids.....Easy for him to say but I am going crazy!!!

Tonya   121 posts since
Jun 17, 2009
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2. Nov 6, 2009 11:31 AM in response to: LilysGarden
Re: another AVN question - Are there things to help?

Did you happen to inquire about switching to Prednisone instead of Dex?

Tonya   121 posts since
Jun 17, 2009
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3. Nov 6, 2009 11:37 AM in response to: nana
Re: another AVN question - Are there things to help?

I hate that there are never any clear-cut answers!  And, the oncs even change their minds week to week.  What do you mean by him telling you that  "if I wanted to continue them it would be a fight"?  A fight with him, or a struggle within his treatment?

nana   116 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
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4. Nov 6, 2009 12:15 PM in response to: Tonya
Re: another AVN question - Are there things to help?

Tonya,

 

Our Onc meant I would have to fight him about keeping up the steroids.  We have always been on the same page before, (this is my favorite Onc), and I am not even sure I want to keep Jakob on steroids.  He told me that if I wanted to resume steroids the both of us would have to talk with the head of protocol in Boston (we are in Canada).  I am thinking that I will get the Onc to talk with the doctor in Boston to get a second (well really it would be 3rd, 2 Oncs here) opinion.  I am trying to put this aside right now because we don't even know if it is AVN yet........

King Alex   90 posts since
Apr 6, 2009
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5. Nov 6, 2009 4:14 PM in response to: LilysGarden
Re: another AVN question - Are there things to help?

Is milk contraindicated during treatment????? Alex drinks skim milk like there is no tomorrow. I know he can't have any 2 hours before or after 6MP but no one said he can't have it at all...

Gina

Peter'sMum   122 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
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7. Nov 6, 2009 7:00 PM in response to: LilysGarden
Re: another AVN question - Are there things to help?

I never realised it was no milk products after lunch. About the only food my son will eat is yoghurt. If we followed that rule, he would starve. I will just have to hope that 6mp on an empty stomach is good enough.

doublewishmom   58 posts since
Aug 11, 2009
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8. Nov 6, 2009 7:03 PM in response to: Peter'sMum
Re: another AVN question - Are there things to help?

We were never told to not drink milk during the day. We just follow 

the no milk or OJ rule for 2 hours before and after evening meds.

Fontenrose   129 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
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9. Nov 7, 2009 1:46 AM in response to: LilysGarden
Re: another AVN question - Are there things to help?

Lilysgarden, I hope the other MRIs are better. Please let us know how that goes. I am very scared of AVN. I understand that the young kids can heal fairly well?

Angela E. A.   30 posts since
Apr 7, 2009
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10. Nov 7, 2009 12:48 PM in response to: LilysGarden
Re: another AVN question - Are there things to help?

Hi, I know I post a lot on AVN! Anyway, Aidan stopped the steroids and he did heal.  I think there are folks on the board that also did variations on that theme and they did heal. I increased Aidan's Vitamin D intake and Calcium as much as possible.  But given Aidan's diet of pretty much potato chips for the last year or so,  I'm not sure diet helped all that much.

 

We did physical therapy so the muscles wouldn't atrophy and shorten.  I can't emphasize how important this is because if not it,it could lead to actual surgery to lengthen the muscles.  Rest the joints when painful. His oncologists originally restricted high impact sports, but the orthopedist clarifield that was more about pain management than any real damage he could sustain to the joint.  He actually wished me luck in keeping him from running when he felt good. I had a pretty active  8 year old.  Aidan eventually learned when to rest, and to anticipate and accept the consequences of pushing himself to the point of extreme pain.  He loved moist heat, warm baths in epsom salts.  His oncologists eventually approved ibuprofen in the evenings if he was having a painful group of days.  Percoset made him high, and there were a few days when I had no choice but to send him to school high! LOL!!

 

Anyway, be prepared though, that even though the steroids are halted the damage could continue.  We stopped steroids in May of 2008, and finally saw healing begin in August of 2009.  The best you can hope for is an arrest/lack of progression of the damage.  But according the orthopedist the time table is as follows:  First appearance of the AVN, maximum damage occurs over the next 6-18 month, healing then begins after that.  He expects that Aidan collapsed hip will take about 24 more months to heal.  But at least he's healing.  Even the AVN in his ankle was beginning to heal.  So it's a process that once started follows a certain progression. Of course there more extensive damage that may require surgery, but on the whole, 8 or younger at onset fare very well.

 

Angela

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