The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society - Fighting Blood Cancers
12 Replies Last post: Oct 31, 2009 1:40 PM by leigh37  
mom2Graham63   27 posts since
Apr 4, 2009
Currently Being Moderated

Oct 28, 2009 8:48 PM

Need perspective: length of hospital stays for low ANC

Graham (pre-B ALL, dx 2/09, age16 now)  was admitted a week ago Sunday for high temp, infection somewhere. He is at the tail end of DI and his ANC was 8 on admission. This is our only admission for this kind of thing. (I know we have been very fortunate!)  Evidently, he was pretty bad at first but rebounded fairly quickly for the most part. He's been afebrile for about 8 days now; on day 11 of IV antibiotics. His platelets and HGB keep dropping, requiring various blood products about every other day. But the biggest problem is his ANC. They want it up near 500 before they will discharge him. He is feeling great, but for that elusive number! Even with daily Neupogen (never had that before, either), his ANC was at its highest of 239 on Sat, 178 on Sun, 174 on Mon then 49 on Tues! It rose modestly today to 85, so maybe we are on a good climb...Anyway, I just wondered what you've experienced as to how long it took to get these numbers up (length of hospital stay), what are your hospital's parameters, experience with Neupogen in similar circumstances, etc.. I would think he could recover at home where there are (theoretically, anyway) fewer, or at least less potent, germs than a hospital. We are going stir crazy at this point so just looking for a little input...    Thank you again!

ChzDad   27 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
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1. Oct 28, 2009 9:11 PM in response to: mom2Graham63
Re: Need perspective: length of hospital stays for low ANC

Hope Graham recovers soon. Chz longest hospitalization was 8 days and it happened on the very last day of DI. He was 16 at the time. He had virtually zero ANC for a good number of days. I have asked his onc to give him the shots just to boost his WBC. Onc refused as they do not want to take any chances for the leukemic cells to multiply. He had numerous platelet transfusios and a few blood transfusions before being discharged. I do recall that during that long hospital stay, if he felt better, we would go out of the hospital  in the morning (after his med) and come back in time in the afternoon for his next med. You know how 16 y/o are - they get bored. During one of those hospital escape, it cost me an IPhone - but it was well worth it. You can see the BIG SMILE on the face of a very sick child. I think his ANC was <500 when discharged - only because there was no infection and no fever. It was amazing how quick the recovery was. We were on a cruise ship 7 days thereafter just to gorge on food.

 

We are now 14 months into LTM. It certainly is better than the first 6-7 months of intense chemo. Good Luck! You are a step closer to some normalcy. Godspeed!!!!!

spookyproud   113 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
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2. Oct 28, 2009 9:21 PM in response to: mom2Graham63
Re: Need perspective: length of hospital stays for low ANC

Here is a great thread to refer to on the Nuepogen.  http://community.lls.org/message/28717#28717

 

It took Kaeden 3 weeks to recover from a pseudomonis infection with doubled up Nuepogen shots and round the clock antibiotics.  His ANC pretty much stayed from 0 to 50. It would trick us and start to go up just a little then drop again. On day 18 I was afraid of relapse so the doctor agreed (he was also concerned) to do a BM and it was negative. On day 19~somehow, someway his ANC jumped to 250.  Then on day 20 it jumped up above 500 and we were able to take him home.  Doctor could not explain it.  It is not a science. Its just when your childs body decides to "kick in" and start doing its job.

Cheryl~

Chrissy   28 posts since
Jun 7, 2009
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3. Oct 28, 2009 9:30 PM in response to: mom2Graham63
Re: Need perspective: length of hospital stays for low ANC

Sorry to hear Graham is stuck in the hospital. Dylan's(7 y.o., dx. 12-1-08, HR-SER ALL-due to MRD) been hospitalized a number of times due to fever with 0 ANC. Our doc's rule is 2 days fever free and 2 days of rising counts(not just ANC but hemoglobin and platelets also). Dylan was at 0 ANC one time for 3  weeks and then discharged when it finally rose to 27. Most of his other visits have been from 1-2 weeks waiting on ANC to come up from 0. I am surprised they are giving the neupagin. Maybe its different for teens due to being higher risk, but our onc's do not use neupagin at all for their leukemia kids unless its relapsed because of the risk of boosting production of blast cells. Even after a 9 1/2 week delay for Dylan to be able to start Interim Maintenance, they wouldn't even consider using it when I asked. Anyway, I do hope that Graham's counts start coming up for ya'll soon. Long hospital stays are rough.

 

www.caringbridge.org/visit/dylankinsey

LilysGarden   66 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
4. Oct 28, 2009 10:55 PM in response to: Chrissy
Re: Need perspective: length of hospital stays for low ANC

Our daughter has persistently low counts.   If we stayed waiting for the magic 500 we would be there for a month since her counts come up only 10 of 20 points a day.   A lot of kids though once they hit 200 or so tend to make pretty decent jumps.   Our doctors look for 2 days no fevers and clear cultures and an upward trend.   So for us it is just a couple days of consistent moving up or stable counts with nothing going down.   They look at monocytes a lot too.   Good luck.  I would say you may get sprung if things stable out and get a couple days of movement upward.   However I have heard of some hospitals holding out for 500.   I can't imagine if we had done that. 

 

Good luck.  At least he is feeling better.   I have found during DI they are more cautious though due to the chemo given.

Tonya   121 posts since
Jun 17, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
5. Oct 29, 2009 1:08 AM in response to: mom2Graham63
Re: Need perspective: length of hospital stays for low ANC

Justin was dx'd age at 10 (11 now) the same month as Graham.  We are now in LTM, but had 8 hospital admissions between Induction and DI for fevers.  Our longest stay was 14 days, and I know the hospitals like to wait for the ANC to be over 500 with no fever for 2 days before they let you leave.  I think the ANC is up to the doctor's discretion though.  Our last stay at the end of DI, our doc just wanted to see an upward trend with the ANC, and let us go with it being 99 on day 8.  The interesting part is that the nurse practitioner wouldn't let us go, but he could.  He also said he trusted us to bring him back in if necessary.  I know how frustrating it is.  Neupogen was mentioned at our last stay, as was checking his IgG levelswhich many on this board suggested we do first.  He ended up not needing anything, and his IgG levels came back as on the low end of normalso we will keep that in mind for the future if necessary.

 

I hope you guys can get home soon!

Tonya

nana   116 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
6. Oct 29, 2009 7:01 AM in response to: LilysGarden
Re: Need perspective: length of hospital stays for low ANC

Our hospital has the 500 rule.  We have been hospitalized a few times when Jakob's numbers would not go up.  He had no more fever, no signs of illness but no count no release.  It really is awful, he is 12, bored teen/preteen not fun!!!  Our oncs will not even talk about neuprogen for ALL.  I guess it is another thing not all Oncs agree on....  Good luck and I hope counts start to go up soon.  One Dr told me once monos start to climb neutros come next and they can jump really fast......

 

Nana

Shakinquaker   219 posts since
Apr 5, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
7. Oct 29, 2009 7:30 AM in response to: mom2Graham63
Re: Need perspective: length of hospital stays for low ANC

No 500 rule for us, but we did always need to be 48 hrs. fever free.  However, it sounds like there is more going on than just low ANC.  When we were there, it has always been low ANC and fever.  No transfusions or anything else.  So- I imagine our team would have kept us longer if there had been transfusions as well.

spookyproud   113 posts since
Apr 3, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
8. Oct 29, 2009 11:18 PM in response to: Shakinquaker
Re: Need perspective: length of hospital stays for low ANC

Our doctors vary on what their "numbers" are.

 

Usually it is fever free for 24 hours, negative cultures by day 2 or sometimes they make us wait till day 3.

If fever shows up again, they repeat the cultures and counting the days (cultures) starts all over again.

500 is somewhat the magic number but with a fever that nulls the 500 rule.

leigh37   5 posts since
Apr 27, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
10. Oct 30, 2009 9:45 PM in response to: mom2Graham63
Re: Need perspective: length of hospital stays for low ANC

My daughter is fighting a virus (coughing/congested) and has had a low grade fever since Tuesday.  We had a counts appt on Thursday and her temp was 100.8 and her ANC was 467.  They were thinking about admitting her but gave us an antibiotic instead. 

teamdonavynn   38 posts since
Apr 11, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
11. Oct 31, 2009 10:52 AM in response to: leigh37
Re: Need perspective: length of hospital stays for low ANC

Did they draw cultures as well? Our hospital would have admitted for that but all are different.  For example if they drew cultures and she is eating and drinking fine then some docs may decide that she can stay home unless something comes back on the culture that the antibiotic you were given didn't cover.  Because if it is just a virus and she is at least drinking well many would determine that there is no need to admit unless she stops drinking and becomes dehydrated.  But I personally would have wanted cultures drawn before they made the decision that we should stay home.  Just my personal opinion.

leigh37   5 posts since
Apr 27, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
12. Oct 31, 2009 1:40 PM in response to: teamdonavynn
Re: Need perspective: length of hospital stays for low ANC

Sorry, I should have included that...they did run cultures on her.  They also gave her two flu tests and both came back negative.

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