Hi Everyone,
I recently got diagnosed with CD20 + Hodgkin's. I had my first ABVD + R on Tuesday and have been experiencing a world of side effects. I was wondering if someone could explain the cycle for me. I am sure it is different for everyone, but I just wanted an idea as to what I can expect.
For me, wed and Thurs i was pretty ok, my mouth felt like i burned it on soup and i was a little tired but other than that I was OK. Friday I was pretty sluggish and my mouth pain increased, Saturday i though my jaw might fall off. Yesterday and today the flu like feeling has come, my throat and ears hurt and my body aches.
Is this par for the course? What can I expect next? Any hints to help?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Sabrina
Hello.
Sorry to see that the Hodge has found someone else to pick on. Is your variant Nodular Lymphocyte Predominant Hodgkin's or are they just calling it CD20+? NLPHL is also CD20+, but I didn't get the Rituxan. I just did ABVD (actually I did radiation about six years ago, then did ABVD when I relapsed earlier this year). The body aches and flu-like symptoms sound like side-effects of Neulasta. Did you get a Neulasta shot after your chemo?
Everything you describe sounds pretty typical to what I experienced. When I had jaw pain, i realized that I was really clenching my jaw a lot due to stress and tension of dealing with chemo. I would catch myself clenching and try to force myself to relax it. Towards the later cycles the jaw pain didn't seem as bad. I rinsed my mouth a lot with a mouthwash called Biotene, and that helped with the mouth sores/dry mouth that was caused by the chemo. I don't really know what to tell you to expect next. The worst part of it for me was the dead taste buds/slimy mouth feeling I got a few days after each chemo, and you didn't mention experiencing that. For a lot of people the nausea is the worst part, but I had some great anti-nausea meds that helped me through that. I felt tired a lot through the whole six months, and I definitely felt "foggy" most of the time. I think you'll find as you go through it that the side-effects become pretty predictable, and will come at the same time and in the same sequence following each chemo treatment, so once you get used to them they aren't as scary, and unless you experience something that you haven't had before you won't get alarmed. I'm like you though. After my first chemo I was totally freaked out by the side-effects, and no one really told me just what to expect.
Chemo is hard. I wish I could say it gets easier. Some things get a little more bearable, but for the most part it's a steep hill to climb all the way to the top. When you get there though, and you know it's behind you, there aren't words to describe the feeling.
This group is a great resource though. If you've got a question, pose it here and people are really good about helping out as much as they can.
I hope you are feeling better soon.
- Peter
Hi Sabrina-
I agree with Peter. Everyone experiences things a little differently but each person kind of gets into a rhythm with their side effects. I have found it interesting how predictable they have become, even to the point where I can almost "set my watch" as to when to expect what. I was diagnosed in May of this year and started ABVD in June. I have had 8 treatments (4 cycles) and have another 4 treatments to go. They give me five pre-chemo drugs the day of chemo and one of those is Decadron (a steroid). That helps hold off those flu-like symptoms for a day and a half and also helps one not be so fatigued. After that wears off, I experience what they call the Decadron crash--extreme fatigue. I also get the achy muscles and I experience some nausea even with the anti-nausea meds, although I am sure it would be a lot worse without those meds. I can eat very little during that first week and can only eat very easy to digest foods, like breakfast stuff. I am really knocked out for three to four days, pretty much a couch potato, and then slowly I start coming back to life. The second week is better energy wise and I can start participating in life again (going to stores, visiting with friends, doing some chores around the house, etc). Just when I hit my stride, it's time for the next chemo. I still get tired very easily even in the second, better week and often find myself having to nap and be careful how I spend my energy. If I have something to do in the afternoon I try to rest in the morning. As I realized there was a pattern to how I reacted to the chemo, I began to relax a little more and have not been as "hyper-vigilant" as I was in the beginning. It's really important to tell your doctor everything that you are experiencing when you go in for your checkups. They keep a close eye on things and can be very helpful if you get an unexpected side effect (for me it was thrush after chemo #3).
I am sorry that you have to go through this but you will get through it. Keep asking your questions and keep us updated!
Denise
I did ABVD alone, 3 cycles. I did find that side effects were predictable. Day of chemo I was fine. Next day food was less appealing and I felt a little tired. 3rd day I was not happy. I was VERY naseated, tired and weak. I had to force myself to eat, and usually felt a big wave of depression. I drank TONS of water to clear my system out. I tried to eat protein, even if it was just a spoon of peanut butter. Day 4 was bad, and then day 5 I was much better. I would load up on calories while I felt good to prep for the next round. As time progressed I got weaker. I used anti anxiety meds to help me sleep, tylenol for aches, zofran for naseau, and an antidepressant. I lost my hair starting after the second chemo, but never lost all of it. My mouth got a little icky, but I used a Rx mouthwash (think it was st george or something). I think the bleomiacin did not work well with my lungs and I would get winded going upstairs. My WBC was always way low treatment day, but I never did the neulasta shot. I remember that I started to smell funny the day after chemo from the chemo
I found a support group to be VERY good, my family was my lifeline and on the rough days I reminded myself I was not alone. Radiation was a walk in the park compared to chemo for me, After treatment was over I gradually felt better. I walked a lot, ate really well, went to counseling and I feel totally normal now.
SOme helpful tips, if you don't have a port and do IV, drinking lots of water the day before helps. If your veins won't cooperate, sometimes a heating blanket on the arm before the IV helps. Doing the Look Good Feel Better program with lots of free cosmetics can be a boost. I would try to eat the best you can to support your body. Ask for help when you need it, especially before you get too run down (I had a 2 yr old at the time). Look into the financial aid program with LLS. The First Connection program with LLS is very good too. There is a toothpaste out there (cant remember name) that is very gentle (your office probably knows the name).
I wish you the very best. Things will get better in the future. Remember to ask for help when you need it.
no one told me that the toothpaste would sting so bad. what toothpaste is gentle? i know i've screwed up my teeth by not brushing enough. at times the toothpaste has brought tears to my eyes. no one tells you that. also - my ass has hurt so bad it has brought tears to my eyes as well. no one talks about that either. i've had to poop in just about every public place where i live.
i'm doing 8 cylces/16 treatments. my side effects have a general predictability but they have also varied throughout the over all course. some side effects such as the numbness in the hands went away. they also stopped the bleomyacin once i started have trouble breathing. i pretty much have had every side effect they quiz you on at the infusion center. the first 5 days i'm nauseaus and then after the nausea improves my digestive tract gets messed up and my mouth gets very sensitive. i had thrush in the beginning because my counts were so low. i've gotten neulasta after every treatment. also had a bad rash with the bleomycin. about half way through i started vomiting very badly. the emend and dexamethasone and other drugs have helped with the vomiting but i'm still nauseas for 5 or 6 days. but a HUGE improvement. i can eat the first week now. before, i couldn't digest anything. i recommend trying probiotics as well. i actually have more energy the first week due to the dexamethasone. my energy crashes the second week. over all i've had like 16 units of blood. the last time i got blood it really helped with my energy. i have chemo tomorrow and wonder if i will get blood afterwards because i've been faint a couple time this last week. i think my hemoglobin must be really low.
good luck to everyone
thanks everyone gor your replies.
I had my second treatment and my side effects were very differnet then my first treatment.
but i am learning to cope.
Hope everyone feels well
-Sabrina
Hi Sabrina-
What kind of side effects are you having? Denise
hi, sabrina!
i'm on ABVD plus procarbazine (oral chemo) and prednisone (steroid). i have similar side effects to the ones you had after your first treatment - lots of nausea, jaw pain, and some joint pain as well. i've got some really great medication to help with the side effects, but it took a few rounds for my doctors to find a combination that helped without knocking me out. the worst thing i ever got was terrible mouth sores after my first treatment - so bad that i lost 10 lbs in a week. i've got a mouthwash that is awful but helps a lot, so i haven't had much more than a little bit of tenderness since then.
lauren
my hodgkin's blog - www.papergownsupermodel.blogspot.com
Sabrina-
Welcome to the nausea club! Everyone's experience is a little different. I went neutropenic after my first treatment, which is my neutrophils fell below 1,500, which is the minimum they'll allow for treatment. I was at 540, and had horrible canker sores in my mouth that would not heal. After a week, I had recovered enough to get my second treatment and the Dr put me on Neulasta shots after every treatment. With those shots came extreme jaw pain in addition to the nausea and fatigue associated with the ABVD.
I was never able to get the nausea drug combo that worked for me, even the Emend did nothing for me. I found that keeping a few crackers or some toast helped ease the nausea. The thought of food was never palatable, but I found that keeping a little something in my stomach all the time helped subside the symptoms. My Dr was nice enough to keep pushing Lortab 5/500 my way, and that went a long way in keeping the pain manageable. Lots and lots of fluids helped flush things out of my system quickly which seemed to help me bounce back a day or so earlier. Also, lots of rest for days 2-5 after treatments are pretty much necessary. And it's true, just as your body starts to feel "back to normal" it's time for the next treatment.
These treatments are cumulitive, and each one is worse than the one before. The last two cycles are miserable! Just stay strong and positive, and you'll make it through. Lean on your friends and family for support during the "dark moments" and know that there are always people here that have been through what you are going through now. If there's anything I can do, please feel free to let me know. Stay positive, celebrate everyday, and know you'll be through this rough patch soon!
Best wishes,
Wes
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for you input and advice. I was supposed to have treatment 3 of 12 today but I caught the flu and had to postpone a week. My side effects were very different after the 2nd treatment then they were for the first.
this time i had the nausea but the meds helped not 100% but i was able to at least eat toast and ginger ale. The Jaw pain was much less the Dr. changed the dosage to help with that. My blood count was low, so I did start the Nuprogen shots and by the 3rd one I had the bone pain people talk about.
I was also much more tired much sooner and my hair started to fall out.
I keep telling myself 6 months and its over.
Thanks again everyone.
Stay Healthy
Sabrina
FYE, the toothpaste is BIOTENE, and you should be able to find it at most groceries or stores like Walmart.
Good luck.